The demons do carry hell with them in the sense that wherever they go they are still damned. I suppose they are always in torment, too. However, *if* they are tortured by physcical fires somehow, *then* they don’t carry that physical fire with them. Otherwise, demonic possession, obsession, & infestation would be difficult to explain.

I don’t think that the sensible pain of hell is postponed until the Final Judgment.

I’m glad you mentioned the episode in the Book of Tobias, which is quite apropos (that book usually is). Yes, St. Raphael chains the demon (whose name is Asmodeus) in a desert in Upper Egypt. Good example!

We have to make some distinctions. Between the time of our particular judgment and our resurrection, we (if we are among the elect & have gotten out of Purgatory) will be in Heaven but we will not have bodies. Therefore, we will not interact with one another via the senses. We will be with the other saints and will be able to communicate with them, but only as angels communicate with one another, i.e. spiritually. After the Last Judgment & resurrection, yes, we will be able to interact with one another via the physical senses of our risen bodies as well as spiritually. Our risen eyes will literally see the risen physical bodies of Our Lord and Our Lady, for instance. We will no longer have to envy the Apostles and the women at the tomb.

Talking of Heaven and Hell during these Wednesday sessions, he places the emphasis on their existence as “states” and speaking of Hell he says, “Rather than a place, hell indicates the state…” A footnote however translates the original Italian as “More than a place, etc.” Yet all of the descriptions of the Bible on Hell are considered by him as “symbolic language.” On Purgatory, however, without ambiguity he says, “The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence.” No mention is made of resurrected bodies.

In, “Dogmatic Theology” by Father Tanquery Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory are classified as both states and places. Some modern theologians may scoff at Tanquery’s works and liken them to a Penny Catechism but I understand they were standard textbooks used in seminaries throughout the states before Vatican II.

Regarding Heaven, Tanquery says: “It is called not only a state but also a place because the place where the sacred humanity of Christ, the Blessed Virgin, and the Saints abide is specific—although where that place is and of what nature it is remain unknown.”

On Hell: “the state of the damned or of those who, dying in mortal sin, are being punished forever, and the place in which the damned are held.”
“The common teaching of the Fathers and theologians is that the fire is real, that is objective….This teaching Sacred Scripture corroborates, for in the passages which treat of the fire of hell, the context by no means opposes the literal sense, in fact, rather it requires it. Also, there is nothing inconsistent about God’s ability to create fire which, by reason of a certain spiritual force, can rack even spiritual substances.” Saint Thomas explains it thus: “Incorporeal substances are harassed by a corporeal fire…through the mode of binding or holding fast…; and this is an affliction for them that they know they are bound by the basest things as a punishment.” I think corporeal fire would need a place to exist rather than just a state.

“Purgatory is a place and a state in which the souls of the just who die with guilt of venial sin or with the debt of temporal punishment suffer until all debts have been paid.” Notice here duration even if not measured by hours of the day.

The cleansing fires of purgatory are mentioned in the Council of Lyons I and the Council of Trent mentions souls detained in Purgatory are assisted by the suffrages of the faithful and especially the holy sacrifice of the altar. In the commemoration of the dead at Mass, we pray that the souls of the departed may come to a “place,” of refreshment, light, and peace.

I think it is safe to say that the those fathers and saints of the Church who gave us the traditions and manner of talking about these things new that souls and angels don’t take up space. But this did not prevent them from speaking about a place for them. My soul is now in my body. When it leaves at death, what prevents it from being gathered in another place with other like souls? It will not indwell as it did my body but it certainly will not be omnipresent but localized. An angel is said to be in the place where its powers are demonstrated. Where is it knowing and loving God? Not everywhere but in a certain place. My Guardian Angel is where I am, not occupying the same place but certainly here as opposed to the North Pole.

When Our Lord came into the country of the Gerasens, he found a man possessed by devils. When he cast them out they went into a herd of swine. The swine din not increase in size yet they became the place of dwelling for the devils. They went from one place to another. Is it unreasonable for God to gather the devils into one place of confinement called Hell?

Our Lord descended into Hell after His death—to that part where the souls of the Old Testament saints were confined to wait for the opening of the gates of Heaven. I think Saint Thomas and the fathers agree generally that the fires of Hell are real and corporeal and that they punish even the fallen angels by confining them.

Purgatory too is a place where physical fire, as apposed to metaphorical fire, somehow purifies the souls of those souls being purified and is painful beyond imagination.

Speaking of question and answer columns, last month Fr. John Dietzen, in his syndicated Question Corner, wrote: “Perhaps one reason less is said about purgatory today is that we have a lot of collected debris on the subject that needs to be cleared up.” Pointing out the non existence of time in eternity and the lack of place, he then proposes his novel theory, “Could it be that the burst of awareness of the majesty and glory of God immediately after death will, by divine grace, be so acute and intense that an entire purgation and readiness for life with God could occur in an instant?” No wonder the Requiem Mass and praying for the dead has been thrown out.

I think Our Lord asked His followers to return to the credulity we once had as little children if we want to get to that place called Heaven.

I’ll be sure to subscribe to this blog. It reminds me a lot of two other great blogs, Unam Sanctam Catholicam and Athanasius Contra Mundum.

I’m not sure how your blog is set up, so I can’t help you more than suggest you look under the options of whoever is hosing your blog.

As for Fr Balthasar, I’ve looked into that myself, but he wasn’t quite advocating what the Protestant Reformers were. From what I could tell, Balth was getting at Jesus experiencing humanity to it’s lowest extent possible (which was still wrong to say Jesus experienced hell). The Reformers were getting at something else, they teach Jesus endured the legal punishment our sins deserved, which means Jesus was damned in our place.

Interestingly, Fr. von Balthasar seems to have thought much as the Protestants do about Christ’s “damnation.” Alyssa Pitstick has written an excellent book taking apart Balthasar’s skewed view of the descent into hell.

At least this isn’t as bad as Sola Fide, where Protestants believe Jesus was damned by His Father in place of the sinner:
http://catholicnick.blogspot.com/

p.s. you should enable the “notify me of updates by email” in the comment box, so that posters can know if a topic was responded to.