By contrast I think that we can still live fairly happily with our fellow Americans, and I definitely deny that political success is the only kind that should matter to us. As my post should make clear.

Lex Orandi — Not to sound all pious, but I was thinking that the main “gain” of converting Evangelicals relates to the souls of the Evangelicals themselves. Of course conversions should also be a source of joy to the already-converted, both because we take pleasure in witnessing their happiness, and also because conversion produces more companions for ourselves. But shouldn’t we always be thinking about how to win the world back for Christ? And wouldn’t converting others to the faith be one of the primary ways to do that?

Having said all of this, I think I understand where you’re coming from, and honestly I’m not the sort of person who’s constantly pounding the “spread the word” drum. Spreading the word requires having internalized the word, and Catholics haven’t been terribly strong on that score in recent years. When people start talking about “adapting” the message to be more “understandable” to non-Christians or our “separated brethren”, I really get nervous. We definitely don’t have a solid enough grip on the faith to be doing too much “adapting” these days. Really the best way to win people over most of the time is just by solidifying our own communities and staying true to what we believe. You don’t need to dress it up or dumb it down to make it appealing; the Catholic message has a pretty powerful pull without any of those antics.

However, my main proposed “strategy” for wooing the Evangelicals was simply by being strong and solid on politically relevant moral issues of our time (abortion, marriage, etc.), where we Catholics really do have the upper hand in terms of both authority (the wimpiness of individual leaders notwithstanding, the Church is never going to give in on these bedrock issues, but Protestants obviously don’t have as firm a foundation) and also theological justification. In a lot of ways I think these issues have become one of the cornerstones of the Catholic identity of younger Catholics today, and while this isn’t ideal in every respect, it’s something, and it’s something the Evangelicals can respect. We’re not going to lose the faith again by being firmly pro-marriage and pro-life, particularly in a society like this one where there are some real battles to be fought over those issues.

American society has very little to do with what a Catholic society would look like. Whether or not Obama or McCain is elected, that’s really the issue. Catholics have been an appendage since the beginning. Most of the prominent Catholics (at least right now) are those who profess a syncretistic Catholic-evangelical model (Deal Hudson, George Weigel, RJ Neuhaus, Michael Novak, et al.). I don’t really see the gain if evangelicals join us or not. I do see a loss of they co-opt us: American Catholicism is already attenuated enough.

Truly, Clara. It’s often said that former Catholics comprise the country’s largest religious group. Orthodox Catholics may be the smallest!

http://www.corpuschristianum.org

But not all of them are bitter and anti-Catholic. I’ve known plenty who have pretty positive feelings towards Catholics. They have various beefs too, of course. Some mainly stem from a fairly superficial understanding of certain Catholic doctrine; others have to do with worship style. I’ve heard people, for example, who praise the Church for “being firm on doctrine” while at the same time complaining that Catholics don’t know how to “get excited about Jesus.” But those are the sorts of people who might possibly be reached.

Another thing: it’s not unusual to hear about high-profile Protestants who were Catholic in childhood, had bad experiences, and perhaps left the Church sometime in adolescence. That definitely happens. But how often do you hear about prominent adult Catholics joining the Evangelicals? I can’t think of any. Whereas we have in recent years seen some prominent Evangelicals come over to Rome.

Just saying it’s an opportunity, that’s all.

But a large percentage of these self-identified Catholics are basically heretics. That is, they don’t feel that they have any obligation to defer to the teachings of the Magisterium, even on issues like abortion where those teachings are completely unambiguous and posed in the strongest language. So, if you only count orthodox Catholics — those who take the faith and its teachings seriously — I’m fairly sure that the Evangelicals outnumber us by a pretty good margin.

I’m not sure I understand your argument here. Aren’t there more Catholics than Evangelical Protestants in the U.S.?