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From the perspective of a parent who is called to do something extraordinary as a profession, it’s actually more than possible to do that (say oceanography? or was it something else relating to oceans??) and homeschool as well. Actually for women with demanding professions often the options can be better, either because of finances, or living in a university setting in which it is possible to find help and resources and support for doing things according to one’s family’s needs.

From the perspective of vocation, if a child is in danger due to the school options in terms of his or her faith, and the parent pursues other work which necessitates that the child stay in this track, it seems that the parent would then have to reconsider. The school options and offerings tend to follow public demand and this is not always the authority one wants to live and learn by.

In choosing what seems the best environment for our ‘least’, the littlest, vis a vis religious education, we find that the struggles of our souls as the adults are encouraged by this same environment. Don Bosco’s methodology was right, if we follow after goodness for the least among us our lives will surely be enriched as well. If we compromise and say that it is ‘good enough’ for them, then sooner or later we settle on what is less than good as acceptable for our souls as well, sell ourselves out, cheat ourselves out of an inheritance of abundance. –k

I saw this to some degree growing up — Mormons aren’t as enthusiastic about homeschooling as traditional Catholics, but there are a few who do it, generally as a means of protecting the kids from the evil influences of the wider culture. Well, anyway, so when I was a kid, my brother and sister and I used to go to the local park on summer evenings to play with the neighborhood children. My older brother had a particular talent for inventing elaborate games that could be played by children of different ages and sizes (instead of just running, they would involve climbing, hiding, strategizing, collaborating with other children, etc., so that different kids could find different ways to win.) Some evenings we would get quite a crowd of kids assembled to play these games, and most of them weren’t Mormons. They might have been Protestants, Catholics, Jews, or even Wiccans for all I know; you don’t discuss religion when you’re in the middle of a wild, screaming game of Connection Tag. One time I mentioned something about this activity in Sunday School, and another girl — a homeschooled girl from an “our kids only socialize at church-organized activities, and even then we tell them to stay away from so-and-so” family — was literally astonished. “Your parents let you just play with the ordinary neighborhood kids?”

Now, I realize that this kind of playground ecumenism only extends so far, but that is not a nice or normal way for a kid to think.

A friend of mine who goes to a Society Chapel was telling me of an exemplary family who sits up front every Sunday to the edification of all. It’s a family of many children, well dressed, well behaved, well mannered and home schooled. He went on singing their praises and wishing there were more like them. “And after Mass they file out the side door and leave rather than stay around and talk about worldly topics with everyone else.” He thought this was a good thing but it’s pretty sad when you can’t socialize with Traditionalists for fear of being tainted. And to limit socializing to family and extended family seems degrading to the Mystical Body.

I’m saying that, no, I don’t feel that the schools I attended were cesspools of sin and vice. But I don’t want to make this into a major topic of discussion, knowing from experience that nothing good will come of that.

As for the rest… of course it’s fair to want to limit to some degree the influences on your young children. But the last part seemed rather curious to me. It’s good, of course, for kids to have some semblance of “company manners” to use around adults, but it also seems to me very normal for kids to prefer the society of other children to that of adults. But maybe I didn’t understand you. Anyway, it’s probably better to leave this topic for now.

Like TV . . .

But, really, aren’t they? I was public schooled all the way through also, and have good and happy memories, and had a somewhat decent group of friends. But I also know I was exposed to a lot of crap by my peers…including by some of my closer friends.

Kids at school come from all walks of life with many experiences, and when you send your children into that for 6-8 hours a day, you have no control over what they’re getting exposed to - regardless of the reputation of the school, its quality of education, etc. They are under other people’s influence more than they are under mine, or at least influences I would approve of.
Even if we had a good, moral, traditional Catholic school available, I’m still very wary of sending my children to it for that very reason. What the school teaches is one thing. What they will pick up from their peers is another. Even from supposedly “good” Catholic families…we all have different standards of what’s ok & not & what we expose our children to, or what younger kids may be exposed to by older siblings and bring back to the schoolyard. I think I’m more concerned right now as my children are still quite young and very impressionable. Do I think I can keep all bad influences away from them forever? Of course not. Right now their minds and consciences are being formed, though. I want to know and have control over who they’re with and what they’re doing. They get enough exposure to the “norm” behaviors through extracurricular activities, and neighbors. We are military, so all their activities aren’t just primarily with homeschool groups (depending on availablility of homeschoolers where we’re at).
Socialization? Periodically we get to observe the military/foreign service school kids in larger groups - how they talk and relate - and I thank God my kids aren’t among them. I ask myself, did I sound like that at that age? I hope not. Not necessarily bad language or lewd actions (though there’s some of that too), but they just sound & act like idiots. They only know how to talk and relate among their peer group, are embarrassed - for the most part - to be around their parents, and probably can’t wait to be away from adults period. Plus side for the homeschoolers - they generally don’t sound like idiots when talking, and they are comfortable around adults and probably show much more respect. They can function outside they’re peer group.

This is a fair point, Cpt Tom. I will keep that in mind.

JK, I think your question is interesting too, but perhaps a new thread would be the best place to open up such broad questions? I’ll put that on my mental queue…

As always your comments are well thought out and written…

I’m all for whatever method that ensures that children learn Truth, magnifies the love of our Heavenly Father, and helps, but not hinders, me as a parent in raising my children to be Godly.

The schools are so different from when I was in High School over 25 years ago. Heck, some schools don’t even use red ink anymore as it may “traumatize” the kids. What bunk.

I agree that some in the home school movement are vehement fanatics. I have to say that looking past the ideology of the fanatics of any movement is a good idea. If I hadn’t done that, I would of never discovered the traditional mass…as I have to admit I had the same aversion to traditionalists. When I looked past a few vocal fanatics, I found the truth and beauty of the Mass like I had never known. Just a thought.

PAX

Perhaps a discussion about homeschool vs school is the wrong way to come at the issue. What if we started with what are our goals and ideals for education of children in general and for our own children (or potential future children)? The we could talk about what sort of schools or homeschooling would be needed to achieve the goals. I suspect that we could uncover a lot more common ground with such an approach.

Oh, I know. You’ll note that I was wary of getting back into this issue, though at the same time, it’s something that I think about quite a lot. Anyway, as I say, I’m grateful that all participants have been quite civil this time around, unlike the last time we discussed this.

>I think that your view while valid ignores certain >truths, and is based on no experience as a parent.

Well, that is true. I’m not a parent. My assessment of public schools is based on my own experience of them, and of what I see in my siblings. I was myself in a public high school a decade ago, and I have a brother in one now, and another in his second year of college. I talk to them about their school experiences, so that also affects my evaluation.

In this thread, I’ve tried not to get into actual assessment of the public schools (trying to narrow the debate, as I told TP), but I’m not denying any of the problems you mention. I went to high school in Boulder, CO, so yeah, I got plenty of liberal indoctrination and self-esteem building there. One of the things that started the explosion in the last homeschooling thread was my claim that hearing all this liberal preaching was actually good for me — because I rejected it with such vehemence that I’ve never since been remotely tempted by that siren’s song. But like I said in my last post, it’s hard to evaluate these things. What’s poison to one can be medicine to another.

But even though I am pro-school, I don’t want to set myself up as the uncompromising foe of homeschooling, either. I recognize that people often have good and legitimate reasons for doing it, and it hasn’t been ruled out as an option for our future kids. I guess I’m partly just turned off by all that ideological vehemence that often accompanies the homeschooling movement — and anyway, it’s hard not to be a bit affronted by the implication that public schools are nothing but cesspools of sin and vice… when many of one’s own happiest memories come from there.

Thanks to Tobias Petrus for that helpful and very interesting bit on the history of schools. And thanks also to Ambrosius, whose point I certain support. Parental involvement is the most obvious positive factor in a child’s education, and it would be fantastic if a voucher program could be created to give parents more viable options.

anyway…

Tobias,

I agree with you…I sent my sons to Catholic HS particularly for that reason and found out how naive I was. in fact, I think that a Catholic School that actually was a Catholic school with Religious (Sisters, Fathers and or Brothers) teaching using Catholic methods with Catholic content would be excellent. A moral, Godly environment, that turned out Godly and well-educated members of the faith would be ideal.

I unfortunately don’t see it happening in this particular diocese any time soon. I’m sure they exist somewhere, but not here!

Yet I propose to revive it. Too late for current homeschoolers, I know, but I’d hate for homeschooling to be the only orthodox option for Catholics. That has *never* been the case.

In response, to Ambrosius, JK, and JSP, I speak with no personal experience, you’re right, for I am single.

a hearty “Happy Birthday” to you and your fellow bloggers. I must say I have always admired your brave and insightful posts. This time you, have again, hit a hornet’s nest with a bat.

In the case of schooling, you’ve obviously feel strongly about this, and that’s fine. I think that your view while valid ignores certain truths, and is based on no experience as a parent. This is relevant as it COMPLETELY changes things. I have 2 in college now and have one in HS and one who is one year old. From real world experience:

* Public schools in many places have devolved into little more than propaganda machines for the secular progressives. Some public schools rise above this, but not many.
* Many Public schools have no idea how to challenge intelligent, but energetic young boys. Many schools will push to put these bright children to be put on Ritalin to make them more “controllable”
* Many public schools have become geared to teach students to the standardized test, not to producing decent citizens or humans.
* Many public schools while having the resources to challenge students, instead have become more enamored to building “self esteem” rather than teaching.
* Catholic schools are not all equal either in orthodoxy nor educational ability. Some “good” Catholic schools are actually worse at morality than some public schools. I can point to a particularly “good” and expensive Prep school in Connecticut, in Fairfield run by so called soldiers of Christ who, frankly, seemed to be more interested in cow-towing to the wealthy students than teaching the faith. So much for the Ignatius Method of teaching.
* Most Catholic Elementary schools are very good, but, most Catholic HS are more concerned with toning down the Catholicism to attract a more “diverse” population. Again, if you think students come out with a good “Catholic” education, you haven’t had to deal with the Catholic High Schools I’ve had.

* In some dioceses (like Rochester) Ecumenism is more important than giving children the tools to stay strong in the faith, or have a Catholic view of the world. “Jesus is our buddy” is the depth of their instruction at best or, worse, just wrong. I have had the experience of having CCD teachers teaching that it is okay to refer to our Heavenly Father as “she” and that our blessed Mother was a scared and unknowing young girl. This to my now 14 year old daughter. At least home schooling of the catechism is ESSENTIAL as no one else is responsible for their soul like you, the parent.

Now, all this said, none of my 4 kids have been home schooled. My Wife and I are trying to figure out what we are going to do for our little guy. We have a few years. I am not necessarily completely convinced that home schooling is the way to go, as the school district and the Catholic school here seems better than Connecticut where I moved from. But, it is very likely will supplement with home schooling as our little guy is a bundle of mental and physical energy. He is going to need to have more than what the schools will offer.