For those who may not own a copy of the “Confessions” of St. Augustine, there is a copy of that work available on “ebrary” as well. Most universities subscribe to “ebrary.”

Anonymous theophile

In the world of sports, however, I see the goods as coming via participation in sport; by competing well and determinedly, by being a good sportsman, fair, etc., I do think that we can learn important lessons. (Not that these lessons can’t be learned in other ways, but they can be learned from time to time in sport, too.)

But the mere spectator is feeding off the sweat of someone else. What if it’s boxing and one likes it all just because of the blood? Then we’d be on the verge of the Coliseum and the bloody spectacles which many Catholic authors condemned as crude and inhuman, not least of all in the way people drank them in.

On the other hand, we might suppose that some of the lessons which are learned primarily by participation in sport can also be learned by those who admire and follow the athletes or teams. Not that these men would be the ideal role-models as compared to the saints, but there are certain qualities we admire in athletes and sports teams which are generally worth cultivating.

I guess that in the end, I’m more inclined to endorse the actual participation in sports, as being the way in which sport is most able to improve (not that it necessarily does) the human person, and less so the watching of them, which often becomes a full time hobby. Bear in mind, of course, that I say this as a man with green and white blood in his veins - I’m just considering the matter from a distance for the time being.

Not sure if this is likened to a game as Clara notes, but it is.

PS–I never read the post of Iosephus but here’s a tip from a commercial: “Buzzed driving *is* drunk driving.”

St. Augustine: Confessions 3, the beginning.

My guess is that finding an English translation of Augustine will be the easier task. Also, if you plan to comment later (please do, btw), please choose at least a pseudonym. It gets confusing to refer to anonymouses, especially when there are more than one. Thanks.

How many beers did you drink? I’ve found that the beer-drinking aspect can quickly get out-of-hand. Not necessarily complete drunkeness but certainly a strong buzz which is not a good example for Catholics to set. And you don’t have to be at a bar for it to happen.

Seriously, I’ve often thought while watching 24, what has the Church taught, throughout the years, about doing an evil act for one’s country?

Over here in Turkey, I’ve found myself having to lie quite a bit. If I’m in a small shop buying some groceries and they are flying a Palestinian flag and all look like Osama Bin Laden inside, I’ll be asked where I’m from and why I’m in Turkey - I usually say I’m a teacher and then if pressed for more information start weaving a tale. Is this a sin?

What about spying?

Murder?

Blackmail?

Sending in a female agent to sleep with the enemy leader and kill him in his sleep.

All these things happened throughout the Middle Ages and even in Biblical times the Israelites used these tactics against their enemies.

And what category shall we put “The Office” (U.S. version) in? Can they get extra credit for being located in Scranton? Is it excessive to pray for characters and the plot to develop in certain ways and not others? ;)

Actually, there was an interesting talk in the classics department two weeks ago about the reasons why Sts. Augustine and John Chrysostom condemned the theater. Part of it was that characters in the plays absorbed people’s pity (of Aristotle’s famous “pity and fear” paradigm for the spectators’ ideal responses to tragedy). But the audience members derived pleasure from this compassion without being able to help these fictional people in any way. So they got some “release” for a natural and, for Christians, supernatural desire without actually doing any work. Sound familiar? Sort of like pornography — sexual gratification without actual matrimony and love. So instead of pleasing themselves in this emotionally onanistic manner, exhausting their supplies of pity on fleeting masks, Christian disciples should be going out and helping the poor, the hungry, the naked, the sick, the imprisoned, etc. Get out of the theaters and into the slums — help a brother out.

That’s what they said, anyway. The argument has its points, but it wouldn’t seem to allow for Passion and Mystery Plays. (Or would the two Church Fathers in question have said that Christ is real, unlike Oedipus and Antigone, and so pity for Christ naturally bears fruit?) But I can’t pursue that line of reasoning very far, or I’ll have to throw out my Homer, Vergil, and Horace. Among the billion other reasons it’s good that Dante wrote “The Divine Comedy” and not I: I never would have left the Limbo of the pagan poets.

Very possibly. But let’s draw an analogy that may or may not be helpful. Suppose you have a similar reaction… to reading a book, or possibly watching a movie. You are so tied into the plot that you really experience the emotional states of the characters and feel profound reactions to the events that take place. Is this also a sign of excessive involvement?

Well, it may or may not be. I’m inclined to say that it depends on the type of book, and on, not only the intensity of your reactions, but on the way in which they are fit into your life and your understanding of things. Becoming addicted to the passion of a trashy romance or the thrill a horror film is almost certainly unhealthy. With, say, a Tolstoy novel, I’m inclined to think that it can be channelled in healthier ways. We can “learn” from the events of the book in a way not altogether unlike learning from events that actually happen to us.

Sports is somewhere in between. A quick glance at a public sports chat room will show that it can bring out many of the pettiest and ugliest of human emotions, in a raw and unfiltered form. But sports can prove a metaphor for life in lots of ways, and some are good. Together with the thrilling victories you get the crushing defeats, and both can be instructive put in the proper context.

Probably not making much sense here. I spent the day experiencing the joys of the Magic Kingdom and my brains may be a bit addled.