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	<title>Comments on: Catholic retirement: a suggestion</title>
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	<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/</link>
	<description>Unity in charity, diversity in truth</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: booklover</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3501</link>
		<dc:creator>booklover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3501</guid>
		<description>'The Warden' is one of my favorite books. As I recall, the Hospital was endowed by private funds (a legacy) and was not a church institution. Provision was made for the equivalent of a chaplain but it was strictly a private enterprise.&lt;BR/&gt;Any such enterprise today would need to take into consideration the extreme shortage of priests. But perhaps some of the many retired priests, who are now living it up in 5-star retirement houses, would see such a chaplaincy as a way to live out the last years of their vocation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;The Warden&#8217; is one of my favorite books. As I recall, the Hospital was endowed by private funds (a legacy) and was not a church institution. Provision was made for the equivalent of a chaplain but it was strictly a private enterprise.<br />Any such enterprise today would need to take into consideration the extreme shortage of priests. But perhaps some of the many retired priests, who are now living it up in 5-star retirement houses, would see such a chaplaincy as a way to live out the last years of their vocation.</p>
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		<title>By: Clara</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3502</link>
		<dc:creator>Clara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 00:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3502</guid>
		<description>Yes, Joe, I think you'd probably be right at home there in many ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Joe, I think you&#8217;d probably be right at home there in many ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Six Pack</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3503</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Six Pack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3503</guid>
		<description>actually, Uzbek life sounds pretty good to me.  just need access to a TLM...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually, Uzbek life sounds pretty good to me.  just need access to a TLM&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dust I Am</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3504</link>
		<dc:creator>Dust I Am</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3504</guid>
		<description>"But even ten or twenty years' worth or prayers -might- [WOULD] be of enormous benefit to the Church as a whole, and for the residents of the house it -could- [WOULD] be a tremendous blessing."&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;A very good idea.  I have a cousin and a couple of friends who would almost certainly join such a Catholic institution/order, if it were developed.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Many older people would not be able to care much for themselves, and it would be very important to have a practicing Catholic staff to encourage a strong religious life.  That might be the most difficult issue to manage, although perhaps not with God's Grace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But even ten or twenty years&#8217; worth or prayers -might- [WOULD] be of enormous benefit to the Church as a whole, and for the residents of the house it -could- [WOULD] be a tremendous blessing.&#8221;</p>
<p>A very good idea.  I have a cousin and a couple of friends who would almost certainly join such a Catholic institution/order, if it were developed.  </p>
<p>Many older people would not be able to care much for themselves, and it would be very important to have a practicing Catholic staff to encourage a strong religious life.  That might be the most difficult issue to manage, although perhaps not with God&#8217;s Grace.</p>
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		<title>By: RP</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3505</link>
		<dc:creator>RP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3505</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of Hiram's Hospital in Anthony Trollope's The Warden, though that was a Church of England institution, rather than the Roman Catholic model it probably derived from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of Hiram&#8217;s Hospital in Anthony Trollope&#8217;s The Warden, though that was a Church of England institution, rather than the Roman Catholic model it probably derived from.</p>
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		<title>By: Clara</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3506</link>
		<dc:creator>Clara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3506</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Joseph Shaw. That is most interesting! And yes, it does indeed sound like the sort of thing I was thinking of, although you wouldn't necessarily need to operate contemporary ones as alms-houses. Most people save something for their retirement these days, and they could pay to live in the house just as they would pay any other retirement home. Perhaps the diocese or the richer inhabitants could make some provision for those who couldn't afford to pay.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Maritain's solution also sounds good... but I don't know whether it could be employed on a massive scale. Most religious orders won't want an enormous influx of older people requiring care, and Maritain would, of course, have been a somewhat special case. I guess what inspired these reflections was the realization that in our time the "problem" of older citizens is becoming enormous, and that we urgently need to learn to tap this growing resource. But also, it seems that God surely has a wise purpose in giving most people a time of natural "poverty" near the end of life (in the physical and mental senses, if not in the material sense.) We squander the gift if we push people in this time of life either to spoiled selfishness (as the Uzbeks do) or to neglected loneliness and despair. &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;We who believe in the immortal soul ought to see the elderly as especially in need of tender shepherding... because they are approaching their final judgment that much more quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Joseph Shaw. That is most interesting! And yes, it does indeed sound like the sort of thing I was thinking of, although you wouldn&#8217;t necessarily need to operate contemporary ones as alms-houses. Most people save something for their retirement these days, and they could pay to live in the house just as they would pay any other retirement home. Perhaps the diocese or the richer inhabitants could make some provision for those who couldn&#8217;t afford to pay.</p>
<p>Maritain&#8217;s solution also sounds good&#8230; but I don&#8217;t know whether it could be employed on a massive scale. Most religious orders won&#8217;t want an enormous influx of older people requiring care, and Maritain would, of course, have been a somewhat special case. I guess what inspired these reflections was the realization that in our time the &#8220;problem&#8221; of older citizens is becoming enormous, and that we urgently need to learn to tap this growing resource. But also, it seems that God surely has a wise purpose in giving most people a time of natural &#8220;poverty&#8221; near the end of life (in the physical and mental senses, if not in the material sense.) We squander the gift if we push people in this time of life either to spoiled selfishness (as the Uzbeks do) or to neglected loneliness and despair. </p>
<p>We who believe in the immortal soul ought to see the elderly as especially in need of tender shepherding&#8230; because they are approaching their final judgment that much more quickly.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3507</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3507</guid>
		<description>Jacques Maritain lived out his last dozen years with the Little Brothers of Jesus, not formally joining their order until three years before his death.  Does that resemble what you had in mind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques Maritain lived out his last dozen years with the Little Brothers of Jesus, not formally joining their order until three years before his death.  Does that resemble what you had in mind?</p>
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		<title>By: deleted</title>
		<link>http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3508</link>
		<dc:creator>deleted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cornellsociety.org/2007/01/catholic-retirement-a-suggestion/#comment-3508</guid>
		<description>I think there is a need for this kind of thing, and I'm sure there would be a market for it.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;What you suggest reminds me of the description of a medieval alms-house I read in an old (1962) Catholic guide-book to the English town of Arundel: there were places like these in every town in Europe, I should think.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;"[The 'Maison Dieu] was designed to provide for twenty men who were unable to earn their living through age or sickness. They had to be unmarried or widowers and to be able to say the pater, ave and credo in Latin. They were selected from the most deserving cases in the town. The master, who was always a priest, was chosen from amongst them or from the secular clergy outside. With the concurrence of the other inmates he selected new members, received their oaths and expelled those who merited it. An officer called a prior was chosen by the pensioners from their own ranks. His business was largely domestic and he atended to punctuality at meals and in chapel. There was also a steward... and four servants.&lt;BR/&gt;  The pensioners rose at five in summer and six in winter. Prayers were said in the dormitory immediately afterwards and Mass in the chapel followed. Each inmate was to wrok according to his ability, the more robust had to help the infirm, who were to give themselve the more to prayer as they had more leisure for it. At noon there were prayers and dinner, followed by recreation. They all were to work until the evening meal... Prayers came next and after that all retired to bed..."&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;All these institutions were robbed of their endowments and buildings in the reformation, mostly by Edward VI.  Does anyone know if serious attempts to reproduce this kind of institution were made in later centuries, or how long such places survived in Catholic countries?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a need for this kind of thing, and I&#8217;m sure there would be a market for it.</p>
<p>What you suggest reminds me of the description of a medieval alms-house I read in an old (1962) Catholic guide-book to the English town of Arundel: there were places like these in every town in Europe, I should think.</p>
<p>&#8220;[The 'Maison Dieu] was designed to provide for twenty men who were unable to earn their living through age or sickness. They had to be unmarried or widowers and to be able to say the pater, ave and credo in Latin. They were selected from the most deserving cases in the town. The master, who was always a priest, was chosen from amongst them or from the secular clergy outside. With the concurrence of the other inmates he selected new members, received their oaths and expelled those who merited it. An officer called a prior was chosen by the pensioners from their own ranks. His business was largely domestic and he atended to punctuality at meals and in chapel. There was also a steward&#8230; and four servants.<br />  The pensioners rose at five in summer and six in winter. Prayers were said in the dormitory immediately afterwards and Mass in the chapel followed. Each inmate was to wrok according to his ability, the more robust had to help the infirm, who were to give themselve the more to prayer as they had more leisure for it. At noon there were prayers and dinner, followed by recreation. They all were to work until the evening meal&#8230; Prayers came next and after that all retired to bed&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>All these institutions were robbed of their endowments and buildings in the reformation, mostly by Edward VI.  Does anyone know if serious attempts to reproduce this kind of institution were made in later centuries, or how long such places survived in Catholic countries?</p>
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