Comments on: This Generation Shall Not Pass Till All These Things Be Done http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/11/this-generation-shall-not-pass-till-all-these-things-be-done/ Unity in charity, diversity in truth Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:34:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Tobias Petrus http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/11/this-generation-shall-not-pass-till-all-these-things-be-done/#comment-3145 Tobias Petrus Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:25:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/11/this-generation-shall-not-pass-till-all-these-things-be-done/#comment-3145 And then I used to cite to priests (Novus Ordo, again -- is there a trend here?) how St. John the Baptist and Our Lord severely chastised the Pharisees and Scribes. They called the latter "hypocrits," "vipers," "whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside but filled with dead men's bones," and "of their father, the devil." My point had something to do with Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus; if this stuff was true of heretics and schismatics in the Old Testament, how much more so in the New Testament. The obfuscatory, mantra-like response from the priest(-s) was "that was midrash, that was how rabbis talked back then." Well, if this sort of thing is standard midrashic "critique" and not a categorical "dissing" on the order of "anathema sit," then how precisely *do* you take off the kid gloves? If this stuff about being sons of Satan is all so easily brushed off, what can't be?<BR/><BR/>Okay, enough venting. And then I used to cite to priests (Novus Ordo, again — is there a trend here?) how St. John the Baptist and Our Lord severely chastised the Pharisees and Scribes. They called the latter “hypocrits,” “vipers,” “whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside but filled with dead men’s bones,” and “of their father, the devil.” My point had something to do with Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus; if this stuff was true of heretics and schismatics in the Old Testament, how much more so in the New Testament. The obfuscatory, mantra-like response from the priest(-s) was “that was midrash, that was how rabbis talked back then.” Well, if this sort of thing is standard midrashic “critique” and not a categorical “dissing” on the order of “anathema sit,” then how precisely *do* you take off the kid gloves? If this stuff about being sons of Satan is all so easily brushed off, what can’t be?

Okay, enough venting.

]]> By: Tobias Petrus http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/11/this-generation-shall-not-pass-till-all-these-things-be-done/#comment-3146 Tobias Petrus Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:18:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/11/this-generation-shall-not-pass-till-all-these-things-be-done/#comment-3146 Good work, Iosephe.<BR/><BR/>Okay, so I was at a Novus Ordo parish when this Gospel was read. The priest said that this is an example of how the Bible isn't to be read literally. After all, "this generation" -- Jesus' listeners -- passed away before this stuff happened, right? He said, "The Baptists down the street take 80% of the Bible literally and the other 20% symbolically. We Catholics reverse the percentages." Huh? If the literal meaning of "this generation" is "the Christian Church," then the whole passage -- falling celestial bodies and all -- can be literal. Or, if the immediate historical reference is a prophecy of the Fall of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, then the actual physical generation of Our Lord's day did in fact witness the destruction. In that case, the literal meaning is still true. Of course there is much in the way of moral, allegorical, tropological meanings, etc. But does that mean that the literal meaning can be completely false? Granted this was a parish homily, not a theology class, but it is precisely this sort of simplistic dismissal of the literal meaning that leads the way to dismissing it at more important points: "and God created the heaven and the earth," "He ascended into Heaven," "an angel of the Lord appeared unto her, saying . . ." Good work, Iosephe.

Okay, so I was at a Novus Ordo parish when this Gospel was read. The priest said that this is an example of how the Bible isn’t to be read literally. After all, “this generation” — Jesus’ listeners — passed away before this stuff happened, right? He said, “The Baptists down the street take 80% of the Bible literally and the other 20% symbolically. We Catholics reverse the percentages.” Huh? If the literal meaning of “this generation” is “the Christian Church,” then the whole passage — falling celestial bodies and all — can be literal. Or, if the immediate historical reference is a prophecy of the Fall of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, then the actual physical generation of Our Lord’s day did in fact witness the destruction. In that case, the literal meaning is still true. Of course there is much in the way of moral, allegorical, tropological meanings, etc. But does that mean that the literal meaning can be completely false? Granted this was a parish homily, not a theology class, but it is precisely this sort of simplistic dismissal of the literal meaning that leads the way to dismissing it at more important points: “and God created the heaven and the earth,” “He ascended into Heaven,” “an angel of the Lord appeared unto her, saying . . .”

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