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This is about a week old now, but I do draw your attention to the whole of the interview with Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith Don which Sandro Magister has up in his latest. The substance of it is that the work for the post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation on the Eucharist is speeding along - to be released this summer? - and that if Benedict’s concerns reflect those of his Secretary at the CDW, we’ll see something said about orientation in liturigcal prayer and the use of the Latin language in the Mass. All of which Ranjith Don is calling an attempt to implement a genuine liturgical reform in the spirit of the Council.
This could be huge, I mean, if there is real substance and weight behind the Apostolic Exhortation. I’ve long thought that the return to Latin and/or the orientation of the priest would be major factors in recapturing a virile spiritual life in the Church. Even one or the other, and not both together, would make a big difference, I think. I think that the Mass, even if in English, would convey an entirely different spiritual message if the priest faces God and not the people. I haven’t read Fr. U. Michael Lang’s (of the London Oratory) Turning Towards the Lord, but we should remember, just as with The Reform of the Liturgy by Msgr. Klaus Gamber, that Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the preface to these books.
I know that traditionalists are extremely allergic to the expression “the spirit of the Council”, and it is right that they should be, on account of the grave atrocities which were perpetrated in the name of the spirit of the Council. But given that we’re not going to see any immediate return to Tradition, full-blown, all at once, this can’t but be seen as a movement in the right direction. It will help us all, even if only on those Sundays when we must attend a Novus Ordo, for whatever reason, we might now find ourselves able to pray the new Mass rather than suffer through it.
I myself would not, I do not think, ever choose the new Mass, in Latin, with proper orientation and all, over the old rite, but many will - not so much choose it over the old rite, as not see any difference. They will see little difference, I imagine, and hear little difference. I’ve never seen the necessity for a liturgical reform, but if Rome is determined to have it, it will be a very happy thing if they have it in the style of the Oratories: proper orientation, Latin, and the rich, traditional music of the Church.
St. Louis-Marie de Montfort,
Pope St. Pius X,
St. Joseph,
St. Ambrose of Milan,
St. Thomas Aquinas,
St. Francis (and St. Clare),
St. Catherine of Siena,
St. Alphonsus Ligouri,
St. John Chrysostom,
If people truly cannot know the difference, then it will be very easy to abolish the New Mass and replace it with the Traditional Mass.
Yes, that could be said . . . I hadn’t thought of it that way; instead, I was taking that detail as an indication that the post-VII meltdown connected with the liturgy isn’t owing, primarily, to such Jewish gems as “Blessed are you, O Lord our God, through your goodness we have this bread….” but rather to the language and orientation of the Mass.
Now what I envisage happening (and what do I know) is that these improvements of orientation and of language will happen in degrees and steps, and in different degrees in different places. I just don’t know. If the priest faces God, but the Mass remains in English, with the three second Canon still regularly used, we’ll obviously be able to tell the Novus from the old rite, and everyone else will, too.
But it’s still an improvement worth having, along with the restoration of the tabernacle in many churches which are in need of such restoration.
It was actually a Latin Novus Ordo prayed ad Orientem that brought me to the TLM. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more beautiful NO, (Fr. McAfee at St. Catherine of Siena in Great Falls, VA) but it still doesn’t come close to the TLM. Even when prayed reverently and in the true “spirit of the council”, it is still clumsy and still does not adequately express the fullness of the Catholic faith, although Fr. McAfee sure did in his sermons. I have no doubt that Fr. McAfee would be praying the TLM every day if it weren’t for Bishop Loverde (perhaps he does in private).
Aside: Fr. McAfee has since been transferred to another parish, but from what I’ve read has begun his Latin NO again and has instituted a Latin language program at his new parish, which is in McLean, VA. When Bishop Loverde was finally ‘generous’ enough to grant an indult for the TLM, I found it curious (although not that much) that it was not granted to Fr. McAfee, but priests that had to learn the rubrics from the beginning.
Tim, thank you for this information.
I, too, began with the Latin Novus Ordo, though on a regular basis at the Oxford Oratory. They knew how to do them so that they weren’t clumsy looking. Others which I’ve seen since do have that clumsy look: the priest standing and standing at the altar, nothing to do, while the choir sings on and on.
Of course, it’s good to be singing beautiful music which goes on and on, but some Latin Novus folks haven’t yet figured out how to make the old music go with the new rubrics.
It seems only a minor detail, though, which could be fixed with some attention.
It seemed I was without a good point in my previous post, so here goes: a NO prayed ad Orientem, in Latin, will be a good step towards bringing the faithful back to a sense of the sacred, and ultimately (I pray) towards a complete restoration of the Traditional Latin Mass as the rite of the Roman Church. I fear there will be a lot of “digging in” with a great deal of the clergy, if these types of changes become mandatory somewhere down the road, but it’s to be expected.
Well, even minor changes in favor of Tradition may encourage progressivists to jump ship. If our dear Patriarch of the West, let’s say, were to establish a Multiform, Wholly Californian Church, then we wouldn’t have to deal with those types any more. Hopefully, the “remnant” would see this as an apocalyptic revelation of what the “spirit of the Council” really means, and we’d see the return of the Traditional Mass. So perhaps even relatively minor, albeit very good, changes in the Mass could inspire a sifting of the wheat. We all remember the National Catholic (sic) Reporter’s article basically calling for a “Society of Paul VI” to reject the changes in the English translation of the NO.
Yes, I imagine that the digging in could be so fierce that the only way to go about the business is to make it semi-optional, and lead from the top down. So bring back all the right stuff to papal liturgies, for starters. Then, make it known that priests will be allowed to these things in the dioceses, and that they will be vindicated, and quickly, by Rome, if the bishop tries to raise a fuss.
But judging by the Novus Ordo I attended last night, in a conservative, fairly large parish, the pastor at the church, St. Thomas Aquinas in East Lansing, MI, is so far from Latin and ad orientem, at least he looks it in the way he does the Mass now, that it almost defies belief that there would be a sudden directive from Rome requiring it.
No, I think it will be a gradual thing, give the priests who are willing the chance, and then win the people over. And then, please God, as you suggest, it may well bring many people to tradition.
To clear up any confusion, the “Patriarch of the West,” at least on this blog, is now Card. Mahoney. Also I left out part of his proposed sect’s title, “Multiform, Wholly Californian and Apostatical Church.” There.
The pope might write a letter encouraging ad orientem and the use of Latin. He will probably write how it should have its place in the Mass and its benefits.
Then the good NO priests will start to implement what the pope encouraged while the libs will go running around like chickens with their heads cut off saying what the pope is doing is wrong and that the Neo-catechumen way is the best.
I can imagine it already. (The libs that is.)
It will be a welcome change. Many of us are forced to endure the NOM from time to time and anything to improve it is a good thing.
However, I just can’t see many of these Novus Ordo priests having an easy time turning their backs on “the community.” Many of these men are self-absorbed drama queens; they crave being the center of attention. The whole role of a traditional priest (offering the Holy Sacrifice to God on behalf of the congregation) is a foreign concept to them.
How many Novus Ordo priests offer the Novus Ordo Missae when no one else is present?
Indeed, just the opposite. When no one shows up for Mass, many of these priests just turn off the lights in the chapel and go home. I’ve seen this myself in small Catholic faith communities overseas. In their minds, what’s the point of saying a Mass if no one is present?
This mindset is of course protestant and the result of Vatican II and the mass of Paul VI.
That leaves us with the other issue of re-educating and re-forming the clergy. Many had extremely poor seminary education and did not go through proper spiritual and moral formation.
The Apostolic Visitation of the seminaries is absurd. Guess what they are reporting? Well, golly gee everything is going great in all the seminaries of the USA.
This is a church thoroughly corrupt in her human elements like never before. Only a moral miracle will turn things around. Perhaps the proper consecration of Russia is part of this.
“I just can’t see many of these Novus Ordo priests having an easy time turning their backs on ‘the community.’ “
Precisely. I could see this at the NOM I attended yesterday: an emphatic and almost emotional, “The Lord be with you!”, the look of the priest as though he were entertainer and trying to help us have a very good Mass by using a lively and heartfelt voice, this sort of thing.
So I think things will have to proceed by degrees and let the willing lead the way. They’re out there, we know some of them, and I get the impression that many of the seminarians on the way up, if they aren’t outright interested in the old rite, are at least inclined in the direction of a different and better Novus Ordo.
This is one of the reasons for the vocations shortage in the Novus Ordo.
Besides the larger factor of those men who are too orthodox or too sexually “immature” (i.e. straight men who strive for purity) being screened out from admittance, those men who are naturally more introverted, quiet, and serious are also dissuaded from the seminary and priesthood because they aren’t charismatic and don’t like being in the role of male-cheerleader.
So we are left with those men who want to be the center of attention and who cherish the spotlight entering the seminary. You know those men who sing show tunes in the shower and spend more than ten bucks for a haircut. Those are the priests we’re left with.
What exactly do you base your statements on?
Oh, let me guess, you’re going to tell me how Fr. X in Podunk, Wherever, is a rock solid pastor, and a real man’s man, and I’m suppose to think “oh I guess the Novus Ordo isn’t that bad after all.”
You say:
“What exactly do you base your statements on?”
Come on lady. What planet are you living on?
I’m not going to engage in some inane debate with a Novus Ordo kool-aid drinker.
My diocese has no major problem with vocations and the NO is said almost universaly.That does not mean there is no connection between the Old rite and vocations.I got the idea of being a priest from the mystery of Mass in the Old rite. Devotion to the eucharist and the NO celebrated reverently has spurred vocations.But almost all the young priests are drawn to the Old Rite and embrace with enthusiam a reform of what we have… The NO can be celebrated reverently and with great devotion.But I notice one thing the more you make the NO look like the Older rite(the classical roman rite)the more people praise you for the beautiful and reverent mass.But it still is not the same. The person who said how awkward it is for the priest to stand for a lengthy period of time while the choir sings says that something should be done to take care of that.What I have done is that if the choir sings a lengthy Sanctus by Palaesrina or Mozart or Gounod I proceed silently with the Canon.Liturgists would pull their hair out and say that is not allowed,but Benedict when Cardinal Ratzinger said it was not forbidden. I also sit when a lengthy Kyrie or Gloria is sung,which can be done and was done in the Tridentine mass.
Ah, sacerdos15, precisely the sort of thing I had in mind. And are you able to share with us where you are saying these well-reformed NO Masses?
Joe Six Pack: it’s not very manly to ignore evidence. It makes it seem as if you operate based off emotions and nostalgia.
I am pastor of St.John,s in McLean virginia.Our No Latin mass is now once a month (I have been here only a year) going to weekly in September.Our professional choir will sing the Gregorian propers and sing a choral mass.We will have lots of altar boys,incense ,banners,no sign of peace,and the altar boys lift my chasuble at the consecration.With a lengthy choral mass I say most of the Canon silently but chant the cosecration.
Not sure if you’re part of the Arlington Diocese, but I was recently in that area and I was impressed with also that almost every Catholic church had posted hours for confessions and those hours were very extensive. Not just the usual Saturday 4:30 to 5:00,, but several days throughout the week. Some parishes every day.
sacerdos15, it looks wonderful! though i must say that i cringed when i saw the spot on the webpage about the army of extra-ordinary eucharistic ministers, so-called
I dont know if the last reamrk about eucharistic ministers was regarding my parish>presuming it was we dont have an “army” of eucharistic ministers or extraordinary ministers of holy communion.The number is 33 at least on paper but that does not mean they serve all at once.My position on EMC is well known around here.I abolished them in my first parish except for those who go to the sick,in my second parish I did away with them except in extraordinary circumstances. At St.Johns I dropped them from daily mass and reduced their number at Sunday Mass to 1 or 2.If you livein my rectory you distribute communion but at the present time with the numbers receiving (larger than my other two parishes) I need them or I tolerate them.They are needed at the weekly school mass (next year said ad orientem and with Gregorian chant) but I insist that the school children receive only from a priest. I support EMC both male and female for the homebound but I support the use of EMC only in extraordinary situations and then only male at Sunday Mass.We have a communion rail and if we could use it the number of EMC would be almost nil.
I should add as a point of clarificatio to my previous post that I have one assistant and two priests in residence with an occasional third.All of us are of one mind regarding the sacred liturgy.At one or two of the 5 weekend masses no EMC are used ,at the other masses 1or 2 may be used.They are told to come up only if they are needed. It may sound like a lot of people giving communion on SunDay,but it really isn’t because we have an oddly shaped church.Built in the 50s, (56 to be exact)the church is round with the sanctuary in the middle.The number of people behind are the same as the number in front or on the sides.There are many doors thus several places to receive communion.There is one plus,if anyone complains because I celebrate one mass facing with the people I simply tell them to sit on the other side of the church.
As a member of an FSSP Latin Mass community, I can tell you that one of the two priests assigned to our community are frequently absent (especially our pastor having to go on fraternity business from time to time). Always in those cases a priest drives down from the fraternity seminary (several hours away) or a priest is brought in from some other location in order to ensure that confessions can be heard on Sundays and that at least one priest or deacon is available to administer Holy Communion.
From time to time we have a deacon from the seminary with our community for several months, so this also helps as he is an ordinary minister of the Eucharist.
Confessions are heard before each daily mass (and after the mass, if needed). And confessions are heard all Sunday morning from before the first Mass until well after the 2nd Mass has ended.
The 2nd priest will leave the confessional at the appropriate time to help administer communion and then return to the confessional after communion.
The FSSP are serious about what they do.These pastoral tasks to them are acts of love.The priest being the Alter Christus and thus spouse to the Church(the people Of God) will show his love for the church by celebrating the sacraments. I was fortunate to be asked a year ago to give the annual retreat to the seminarians at the FSSP seminary in Denton Nebraska. I was impressed with their love for the church and for the priesthood as well as the things of God.
Sorry, sacerdos15, when I saw the number “33″ on the website, I naively envisaged them flying into action all at once! Of course, coming from the Diocese of Rochester, I needed not to rely so much on imagination as on memory.
It sounds like you have done great things with your parish. May God bless your labors.