Comments on: St. Elijah needs to visit “Pimp My Church” http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/ Unity in charity, diversity in truth Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:29:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Iacobus http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1378 Iacobus Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:55:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1378 Tut, tut, Ambrosius! Tut, tut, Ambrosius!

]]> By: Ambrosius http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1379 Ambrosius Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:22:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1379 Sorry for all the deleted comments, folks -- the amount of personal material posted got a bit out of one of our readers' comfort zone, so we've pulled the offending comments. No censorship <I>this</I> time (sorry, Iacobus). Sorry for all the deleted comments, folks — the amount of personal material posted got a bit out of one of our readers’ comfort zone, so we’ve pulled the offending comments. No censorship this time (sorry, Iacobus).

]]> By: RP http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1380 RP Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:02:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1380 Clara, please look for an email I just sent to your attention. Clara, please look for an email I just sent to your attention.

]]> By: Clara http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1381 Clara Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:52:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1381 Not really sure. We don't discuss politics all that much. But we were remarking last night that on the whole our group tends to be more symapthetic towards the neo-conservative outlook than your average bunch of Trads. So that might not be promising. But we care far more about Tradition here than any particular economic system, so I'm sure distributists could find a welcome. Not really sure. We don’t discuss politics all that much. But we were remarking last night that on the whole our group tends to be more symapthetic towards the neo-conservative outlook than your average bunch of Trads. So that might not be promising. But we care far more about Tradition here than any particular economic system, so I’m sure distributists could find a welcome.

]]> By: Doctor Asinorum http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1382 Doctor Asinorum Thu, 23 Feb 2006 04:34:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1382 On its way, my dear. On its way, my dear.

]]> By: Clara http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1383 Clara Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:52:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1383 I had not heard of that book, but on the strength of that recommendation my fiance is sure to find me a copy! And send our daughters to Christendom College, if we ever have any.<BR/><BR/> Actually, I've been through a period of wearing mostly skirts, when I worked in Uzbekistan, in a very conservative part of the country. In the warmer months I liked it fine -- loose cotton skirts and sandals are pleasant summer attire. But in the winter it drove me nuts. The only way to keep warm was by wearing leggings underneath my skirts, but when I did that I felt like a massive, lumpy pile of clothes and I could hardly wait to get home and change back into my jeans. Still, I thank you for the recommendation, and I do recognize that there is value to self-consciously dressing like a woman. I had not heard of that book, but on the strength of that recommendation my fiance is sure to find me a copy! And send our daughters to Christendom College, if we ever have any.

Actually, I’ve been through a period of wearing mostly skirts, when I worked in Uzbekistan, in a very conservative part of the country. In the warmer months I liked it fine — loose cotton skirts and sandals are pleasant summer attire. But in the winter it drove me nuts. The only way to keep warm was by wearing leggings underneath my skirts, but when I did that I felt like a massive, lumpy pile of clothes and I could hardly wait to get home and change back into my jeans. Still, I thank you for the recommendation, and I do recognize that there is value to self-consciously dressing like a woman.

]]> By: RP http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1384 RP Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:00:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1384 Clara, have you ever read Dressing With Dignity, by Colleen Hammond? It is very motivating. I have just in the past 6 months completely stopped wearing pants of any kind. It was hard. They are so comfy and warm. But I feel more womanly than ever. I am embarrassed to admit my age, but just to give you an idea how long it has taken me to "come to," I will tell you that I am 54. Interestingly enough, it was my daughters (two of whom are graduates of Christendom College) who set the example and convinced me. Clara, have you ever read Dressing With Dignity, by Colleen Hammond? It is very motivating. I have just in the past 6 months completely stopped wearing pants of any kind. It was hard. They are so comfy and warm. But I feel more womanly than ever. I am embarrassed to admit my age, but just to give you an idea how long it has taken me to “come to,” I will tell you that I am 54. Interestingly enough, it was my daughters (two of whom are graduates of Christendom College) who set the example and convinced me.

]]> By: Clara http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1385 Clara Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:04:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1385 That was just a poor translation. My brother clearly told us that in the Russian, the prohibition was against women wearing pants OR immodest clothes inside the church. Besides which, I see no reason why I should be bound by schismatic dress codes. That was just a poor translation. My brother clearly told us that in the Russian, the prohibition was against women wearing pants OR immodest clothes inside the church. Besides which, I see no reason why I should be bound by schismatic dress codes.

]]> By: Doctor Asinorum http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1386 Doctor Asinorum Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:54:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1386 At a Russian Orthodox church in DC this past weekend, Clara and I were pleased to discover that pants of any sort on women are forbidden as "immoderate." Oh wait, perhaps it was only I that was pleased in this discovery. Clara obstinately refuses to repent of her immodest ways. At a Russian Orthodox church in DC this past weekend, Clara and I were pleased to discover that pants of any sort on women are forbidden as “immoderate.” Oh wait, perhaps it was only I that was pleased in this discovery. Clara obstinately refuses to repent of her immodest ways.

]]> By: Clara http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1387 Clara Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:34:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1387 Mmm, ask the Mormons about that. At our church dances, girls were not permitted to wear skirts above the knees, and questionable cases were made to kneel on the ground to see whether the skirt touched the floor. <BR/><BR/> I'm not actually sure whether pant-wearing would have been forbidden for girls... but nobody did it. Not for a formal dance, that is. Mormons have a very clear sense that dressing up means skirts and dresses for women. Mmm, ask the Mormons about that. At our church dances, girls were not permitted to wear skirts above the knees, and questionable cases were made to kneel on the ground to see whether the skirt touched the floor.

I’m not actually sure whether pant-wearing would have been forbidden for girls… but nobody did it. Not for a formal dance, that is. Mormons have a very clear sense that dressing up means skirts and dresses for women.

]]> By: Iosephus http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1388 Iosephus Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:26:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1388 I know that Clara is in complete agreement with me on this point, but I would also say that while these activities of leisure within the parish family are commendable, the mixing of the sexes, while clothed immodestly, as many of the pictures indicated, such as, for example, women dressed in pants and tight fitting tops - I say, activities which would require or encourage such dress ought be avoided at all costs. : ) I know that Clara is in complete agreement with me on this point, but I would also say that while these activities of leisure within the parish family are commendable, the mixing of the sexes, while clothed immodestly, as many of the pictures indicated, such as, for example, women dressed in pants and tight fitting tops - I say, activities which would require or encourage such dress ought be avoided at all costs. : )

]]> By: Clara http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1389 Clara Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:18:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1389 Oh, of course, I think we are all in agreement. Obviously break dancing or roller skating inside the sanctuary is an appalling sacrilege. But if those who have zeal for reaching out to youth would like to arrange such activities in some other location, on a day other than Sunday, I think that would be most welcome. Young people need to learn that there are times and places for things, but the more their lives revolve around the Church and parish life, the better. Oh, of course, I think we are all in agreement. Obviously break dancing or roller skating inside the sanctuary is an appalling sacrilege. But if those who have zeal for reaching out to youth would like to arrange such activities in some other location, on a day other than Sunday, I think that would be most welcome. Young people need to learn that there are times and places for things, but the more their lives revolve around the Church and parish life, the better.

]]> By: RP http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1390 RP Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:25:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1390 Rereading my post, I'm afraid I may be misunderstood. I did not mean to suggest that any youth activities should be conducted in the church, proper. Rereading my post, I’m afraid I may be misunderstood. I did not mean to suggest that any youth activities should be conducted in the church, proper.

]]> By: RP http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1391 RP Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:23:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1391 Clara, I think you're right on target in terms of the need for youth formation as well as clean fun within the Church. In fact, it's a shame that Protestants are known for doing a better job with this, in the present age of the Church.<BR/><BR/>But it is abominable that, as in the photos posted, beautiful houses of God are being used in such a profane, irreverent and dishonorable manner. But when people have lost their faith in the True Presence of Our Lord in the Tabernacle, it's easy to understand how they can treat the Church as any Protestant meeting hall or any old building whatsoever. Clara, I think you’re right on target in terms of the need for youth formation as well as clean fun within the Church. In fact, it’s a shame that Protestants are known for doing a better job with this, in the present age of the Church.

But it is abominable that, as in the photos posted, beautiful houses of God are being used in such a profane, irreverent and dishonorable manner. But when people have lost their faith in the True Presence of Our Lord in the Tabernacle, it’s easy to understand how they can treat the Church as any Protestant meeting hall or any old building whatsoever.

]]> By: Clara http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1392 Clara Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:52:00 +0000 http://www.cornellsociety.org/2006/02/st-elijah-needs-to-visit-pimp-my-church/#comment-1392 You know, one thought that strikes me when I see tragic things like this is that a lot of the impulses behind it are actually good -- just horribly misdirected. The image of a Party Mass is ghastly, but, as we of the Cornell Society for a Good Time should know, there's nothing wrong with having some fun in life, and young people will insist on having a fair amount of it under any circumstances. Many of these activities would be perfectly appropriate for a youth group, though quite obviously not for a Mass. <BR/><BR/> Could not those people who express such interest in organizing youth be put to work arranging Catholic youth groups? There don't seem to be many of these, and I think it's unfortunate. My church growing up had a plethora of youth activities, including something fun every Tuesday night. It was a very important tool for social formation. Church youth groups are an excellent way of allowing young people to have fun in wholesome ways, and also allow for many positive lessons. We, for example, did a lot of community service projects; a Catholic group could also integrate elements of catechesis, and liturgically appropriate activities such as rosary prayers and praying for the dead in the cemetery on the Feast of All Souls. Also, getting Catholic youth together will encourage the flowering of romances between young Catholics, which in turn will reduce the number of marriages outside the faith.<BR/><BR/> I guess Catholic high schools were supposed to fill all these functions, but they don't seem to be stepping up the plate these days. You know, one thought that strikes me when I see tragic things like this is that a lot of the impulses behind it are actually good — just horribly misdirected. The image of a Party Mass is ghastly, but, as we of the Cornell Society for a Good Time should know, there’s nothing wrong with having some fun in life, and young people will insist on having a fair amount of it under any circumstances. Many of these activities would be perfectly appropriate for a youth group, though quite obviously not for a Mass.

Could not those people who express such interest in organizing youth be put to work arranging Catholic youth groups? There don’t seem to be many of these, and I think it’s unfortunate. My church growing up had a plethora of youth activities, including something fun every Tuesday night. It was a very important tool for social formation. Church youth groups are an excellent way of allowing young people to have fun in wholesome ways, and also allow for many positive lessons. We, for example, did a lot of community service projects; a Catholic group could also integrate elements of catechesis, and liturgically appropriate activities such as rosary prayers and praying for the dead in the cemetery on the Feast of All Souls. Also, getting Catholic youth together will encourage the flowering of romances between young Catholics, which in turn will reduce the number of marriages outside the faith.

I guess Catholic high schools were supposed to fill all these functions, but they don’t seem to be stepping up the plate these days.

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